Good evening… again. While we await the latest model runs, I thought it would be good to show you forecast from the HPC. The Hydrometeorological Prediction Center puts out forecasts on heavy rain or snow events across the country.
Here is their snowfall probability map for the upcoming winter storm…
Think of that as being similar to the severe weather risk maps coming from the Storm Prediction Center. Those maps show a good risk for significant snowfall for much of the state.
Here is the HPC Discussion about the upcoming winter storm:
…CENTRAL APPALACHIANS/MID ATLANTIC STATES DAYS 2 INTO EARLY DAY
3 (SUN NIGHT)…
INGREDIENTS CURRENTLY TAKING SHAPE FOR THE MUCH-ADVERTISED/LONG
AWAITED WINTER WEATHER EVENT FOR THE LOWER OH/NRN TN VLYS EAST TO
THE MID ATLC REGION. THE DEEP UPPER TROUGH OUT WEST HAS NOW
SHIFTED E OF BAJA…WITH AN ELONGATED…NARROW COLD CONVEYOR BELT
AXIS EXTENDING FROM NRN TX SW THROUGH SRN NM/AZ PER THE LATEST
STLT WV/IR IMAGERY. MEANWHILE…OUT AHEAD OF THE UPPER SYSTEM A
LENGTHY SUBTROPICAL CONNECTION CAN BE SEEN WITH THE WARM CONVEYOR
BELT…ONE THAT WILL ULTIMATELY WILL TAP THE GULF AS THE TROUGH
MOVES E.
IN TERMS OF THE LATEST MODEL SUITE…WHILE THE OPERATIONAL RUNS
WERE IN DECENT ALIGNMENT WITH RESPECT TO THE MASS FIELDS…THERE
AGAIN WERE DIFFERENCES IN S-N DISTRIBUTION OF QPF AND TO SOME
EXTEND THE LLVL THERMAL PROFILE. HPC LEANED TOWARD A GFS-UKMET
BLEND…WHICH CLUSTERED FAIRLY WELL IN TERMS OF THE QPF COMPARED
TO THE NAM (A BIT MORE ROBUST FARTHER N) AND THE ECMWF (HEAVIER
PCPN SHIFTED S). WHILE THE CONFIDENCE IN THE MODELS (MASS FIELDS
IN PARTICULAR) ARE INCREASING…SUBTLE YET SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES
IN THE LLVL THERMAL AND MSTR PROFILES REMAIN DISCONCERTING.
ESPECIALLY WITH A SYSTEM THAT WILL GENERATE PREDOMINANTLY RAIN ON
THE FRONT END WITH THE WAA/WCB…ALONG WITH THE ANTECEDENT WARM
GROUND WITH THE MILD CONDITIONS TODAY AND SAT. THE MAIN PLAYER
FROM A SNOWFALL STANDPOINT WILL BE THE EVOLVING CCB (TROWAL
POTENTIAL)…WHICH THE ORIENTATION…STRENGTH…AND SPEED WILL BE
BASED HEAVILY ON THE THE PROGRESSION AND SRN EXTENT OF A SECONDARY
NRN STREAM SHORTWAVE. THE MORE CONFLUENCE ALOFT…THE TIGHTER THE
N-S GRADIENT IN TERMS OF DEEP MOISTURE (FAVORING A DEEPER NRLY
ISALOBARIC COMPONENT WITH DRIER LLVL AIR PUSHED SOUTH).
MEANWHILE…INCREASED MID/UPPER LEVEL DEFORMATION WILL HAVE AN
EFFECT ON THE ORIENTATION AND N-S EXTEND OF THE
CCB/COMMA-HEAD…I.E. RESULTING IN A NARROWER…
MORE W-E VICE NW-SE ORIENTED PCPN FIELD. THE UPSHOT WITH THE
GFS/UKMET BLEND IS A COMPROMISE BETWEEN THE NAM (FARTHER N WITH
THE MSTR) AND ECMWF (FARTHER S). THE NAM ALSO CONTINUES TO HAVE
ISSUES WITH THE DEGREE OF BNDRY LAYER COOLING OVER THE SRN
PERIPHERY OF THE CCB (CLOSER TO THE 850 MB LOW TRACK). IN ORDER TO
CAPITALIZE ON THE DYNAMICAL COOLING…PCPN RATES NEED TO BE
SUFFICIENTLY HIGH…WHICH IS IN QUESTION GIVEN WHAT THE MODELS ARE
SHOWING IN TERMS OF A VERY SLOW CYCLOGENIC PROCESS UNTIL THE LOW
REACHES THE COAST. THEREFORE…A DEPICTION OF A MORE PROGRESSIVE
CCB/DEFORMATION BANDED PCPN WITH LITTLE EVIDENCE OF A PERSISTENT
NOR ELONGATED TROWAL.
AGAIN…PREFERRED A GFS/UKMET SCENARIO WHERE THE RAIN WOULD CHANGE
OVER TO SNOW ACROSS NRN TN/NC AND SRN VA…WHILE UNDERCUTTING THE
NAM ACCUMS IN THESE REGIONS.
CONVECTION WILL ALSO ADD TO THE UNCERTAINTY…I.E. IN TERMS OF THE
EFFECTS ON THE NORTHWARD MOISTURE TRANSPORT AND DEEPENING OF THE
SYSTEM (AND THUS EFFECTS ON ENHANCING THE POTENTIAL VORTICITY).
ELEVATED CONVECTION AND POTENTIAL FOR ENHANCED MESOSCALE BANDING
WILL ALSO BE A CONCERN…ESPECIALLY AT THE APEX OF THE DRY SLOT
ABOVE THE -10C ISOTHERM. ALL-IN-ALL…POTENTIAL FOR 6-12 INCHES
WILL REMAIN HIGHEST ACROSS THE MNTNS IN WRN VA…ACROSS MUCH OF
SRN WV…AND ERN KY. FCST CONFIDENCE DECREASES TOWARD I-95
INCLUDING THE MID ATLC CITIES…THOUGH BECAUSE OF THE SPREAD OF
POSSIBILITIES HPC HAS INCLUDED A MOD RISK OF AT LEAST 4″ INTO NRN
AND CEN VA…ALONG WITH A SLIGHT (1 IN 10) RISK OF 8 INCHES. STAY
TUNED.
I will have a full update later tonight and will be tweeting information coming from the new model runs filtering in. Take care.
I was waiting for the dreaded WAA to come into the discussion-that’s where great snow storms go to die. Bubba has been concerned about ground temps and WAA and it looks the pros are too. Should be an interesting ride.
Not to mention CB posted about 35 minutes ago the NAM is trending more south. I see nothing in the data and outlook CB kindly posted that supports the high end of the snow map and barely the low end. I see a lot of 10% slight in those maps and still think the trend needs factoring in. Respectfully, of course.
Seems if people jumped ALL over the NAM 24 hours ago and it is now trending more south- do we treat is as bogus? Seems a double standard.
If I agreed with the ma[, I would be jumping all over this and do normally agree with CB (he is usually correct), but I think the snow totals are optimistic.
Now, if the composite of the maps tomorrow show a trend more north and the thermals are in check as well- I will gladly take a kick at the football.
Not yet. That is not insanity…. Is this where I say, “I’m not crazy, you are crazy!”. 😉
All we can do is hope
I will have a burrito in your honor 🙂
I was in your territory earlier today
Qdoba? 🙂 Now THAT is a good burrito!
Wow, even though I know that’s written in English my eyes glaze over reading it. Can someone translate for us Hillbillys?
Cutting to the chase and zapping techno jumbo:
1. They are not sure either
2. The maps range from 10% probability to 40%. The blue ring is slight at 10%, which is most of us.
3. The snow accumulation is expected to be undercut, based on GFS data (offsetting the NAM).
4. East KY is still in the game for a 6″ or higher event.
5. The further east you go from E KY, the higher the totals, with an I95 boundary
6. The further west you go from E Ky, the lesser the accumulated snow.
7. Based on their emphasis of the VA border and mountains, seems to suggest extreme E KY is the main area in play for KY and higher elevations.
Sorry, missed the 70% area. Phones not best for map reading.
I am done (thankfully for the folks here) for the evening, unless CB updates again.
CB rocks HARD, so if he sticks with the map in the AM, I will consider kicking the football.
Regardless, E KY looks to be getting the most snow, whatever the case. Seems the further east, the more chance for the higher totals on CB’s map. Who knows, it may trend north a tad and get more folks involved and cold air will fuel the snow/fire. 🙂
New Nam not looking good, appears to be well south of KY
Well the HPC discussion certainly makes me feel illiterate and stupid.
huh ?
When does the GFS run?
Looks like the Nam is following the euro, if the gfs does the same we mau be in trouble
Are you trusting models, can you say NOWCASTING (sunday)
NAM now similar to ECMWF and SREF further south and east.
NAM looked a bit off to me on this run. I doubt there will be 3 vort maxes as shown and the surface low should not be over southern Georgia.
Ya Don’t say…Why should the surface low not be over southern Georgia…5 days ago thats where the models were showing it…So apparently the models just suck and a waste of taxpayer’s money in my book..
It doesn’t match the 500 mb height pattern. Much like at the surface with highs and lows the track of storms can also be influenced by the height pattern aloft, ridges/ troughs. There is to much ridging for the low to be that far south.
0z NAM makes the dividing line I-64, north of that gets next to nothing, could see really good accumulation along the TN border. That’s just according to this run, remember guys, guidance not gospel.
how about eastren kentucky.
Gonna get bombed.
Unusual. For the models to run south in the ball game. Seems like they would head North or Northwest like they tend to do. Weird winter continues
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150681522074874&set=a.10150418559044874.411565.129524519873&type=1&ref=nf
Ok whatever NAM. I’m in louisville and I know how it works. I will be making sure I go to the grocery tomorrow. I want a big pot of chili as I watch the kids play in 8″ of snow on Sunday. It’s gonna happen. I trust no models and I trust no man. Like I have said before. Someone is going to be surprised. Just a gut feeling!
GFS has been most consistant of all models. It has always been south and east as I stated from the get go. Louisville Metro has been on the 1 inch line since this storm has been mentioned. Now it is trending south. Louisville might not even get a flurry.
Amen. Louisville will see little to nothing.
The folks in the discussion CB posted above appear to favor the GFS.
Well according to Chris the gfs has been the most consistent. I was hoping the nam would move northwest and the gfs would follow.
With new runs going further south, what does that mean for se ky, clay co?????? does that lower or increase our possible totals??? thanks in advance! 😛
That would increase our prospects here in se ky
All we can do is wait for chris to put another map out with his latest on possible accum. I really enjoy reading everybodys comments.
His map on WSAZ while on the air right now is still the same as before.
I’ve seen models shift before but never this big of a shift in basically a storm lest than 2 days out..Why on earth do taxpayers have to pay for models that are in La La land that has no idea if it’s gonna rain or the sun will shine..Don’t know about anyone else but im tired of paying taxes so some nerd can sit and play with computers at my expense an others..Shut NOAA down and let the nerds get a real job..Rant over..
For some reason these models(by the way many of them are not American) have always have had difficulties with fz precipitation here in Ky. Why gov. use them is because threw out the whole year they are quite accurate.
The only explanation that the experts can come up with concerning the forecasting fz moisture in ky is that we are almost always in the transitional zone or near the phasing of the north & south jet streams.
So if the Nam went south what does that mean for Magoffin and Floyd counties? Prior to the southern nam shift those two counties were in the 8 to 14 inch area. So what now, less snow?
No telling what will happen. For UK fans, saw Nerlins at Pazzo’s tonight. Seemed to be enjoying things.
Reads like a bunch of fluff saying basically ‘we have no earthly idea whats going to happen but all this sounds like we know something’
lol
🙂
The NAM snow totals are now matching was GFS had been showing consistently up until noon today. We still have a slight bit of time left to see where the low goes.
For now I’m making no changes to my map. We’ll take another look in the morning.
Smart move.
Anybody have a link to the new NAM snow map? Earl’s (WXCaster) is still not updated. CB mentioned heavier snows shifted a “little” farther south. Have to wonder what little means to miles. Brian Goode over at WAVE3 is saying the heavier snow bands could be near the TN border. Either way, this is shaping up to be a southern Kentucky and eastern KY storm, or would appear that way. Let’s see what the GFS says, and the next run of the NAM. Also, we’ll have the short term modeling available tomorrow.
Just for fun. I’m going Trace to 1″ for the southern portions of the Louisville area (southern Jefferson, Bullitt, Spencer). A general 1-3″ for a line north of Elizabethtown-Bardstown -Versailles. Locations south of the BG and Mountain Parkways-3-5″. Locations along and south of the Cumberland and Hal Rogers-4-7″ And some sweet spots near the TN border may pick up close to double digits.
WX Man. I trust in your thoughts. Thnx
Quote from HPC’s Model Diagnostics Discussion
“THE 00Z NAM IS THE STRONGEST OF THE GUIDANCE WHICH OPPOSES THE 24 HOUR MODEL TREND…SO WILL NOT INCLUDE IT IN THE PREFERENCE. THE 12Z CANADIAN IS STILL TRYING TO PHASE THIS SYSTEM ALOFT QUICKER THAN THE OTHER GUIDANCE WHICH IS A GENERAL MODEL BIAS WITH MULTIPLE
STREAMS INTERACTING…SO WILL NOT CONSIDER ITS SOLUTION VIABLE. THIS LEAVES A PREFERENCE FOR A 12Z ECMWF/12Z UKMET/18Z GFS COMPROMISE SOLUTION WITH ONLY AVERAGE CONFIDENCE AS THERE REMAINS DAY-TO-DAY CHANGES IN THE DETERMINISTIC GUIDANCE WHICH IS INHERENT IN A PATTERN WHERE MULTIPLE STREAMS ARE INTERACTING/TRYING TO
PHASE. THE 21Z SREF APPEARS TO BE USABLE HERE AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO WHAT HAS BEEN CHOSEN.”
Sorry about caps copy just as it is
im lost now..hurry up and get in texas so we have a better ideal where it where go
Seems that is fancy talk that the 00Z NAM is a statistical outlier, they are not considering in the outlook.
I don’t care what the models say right now. I also don’t care how wacky this winter season has been thus far. The models have always trended north in the past, so why should this be any different? I can’t count the times that it looked like we would hit the jackpot (Louisville and Central Ky) only to have southern Indiana steal another storm from us! Give it time and see if the trend finally helps us. (This is probably the one time it won’t trend north!)
Latest NAM snowfall for Central KY
http://wxcaster.com/gis-snow-overlays.php3?STATIONID=LVX
Thanks for the post, it wasn’t updated when I went there earlier.
Seriously…. It went that far? From most of Lexington getting at least 3-5 inches to now most of Lexington gets NOTHING!?! Ugh.
Anybody else notice that each NAM map has been slowly trending southeast in the past 24 hours? This is not a sudden change, just stands out more now.
That is unless we are choosing another model now 😉 I take the composite anyway, but seems nothing is suggesting a northwest trend.
Thats the exact oposite of what some people were saying or hoping it was gonna do
I just looked at each map. They are not staying steady and not heading northeast. Appears to be southeast.
Before you know it Atlanta will be in the sweet spot.lol
This makes me sick.
Suggest waiting until CB posts again before getting too down. That said, seems more chance for CB to downgrade than upgrade, based on the info at hand and would not have tweeted about the NAM trending southeast if he did not take some stock in it.
JOKE
No link, but I did find the latest NAM snowfall map. Heaviest snow bands (10-12″) along far southern KY in parts of Wayne, Whitley, Bell Counties. A ribbon of 8-10″ amount in Pulaski, Laurel, Clay. a broader are of 6″ amounts north of Laurel into Rockcastle and over into east KY. The snowfall virtually drops to nothing around Central KY. So, for now, the NAM projects the heaviest snowfall to be along and south of the Hal Rogers/Cumberland parkway corridor and into north TN.
Yeah that map shows 10 inches here in Knox county and nothing in Lexington that seems a little far fetched
how about knott co
Snow tornado, ice hurricane, followed by earthquake Apocalypse, 2012.
WOOOOHOOOOOO!!! you folks in knott co hold onto your butts!
There are too many variables at play with this system to put any credence in the computer models. The only thing that is a sure bet is that there is going to be a lot of moisture in the region. When it changes over to snow and where the sweet spot hits is anyone’s guess at this point and the current computer models should not be trusted with this setup. I have a feeling that as we get closer to Saturday night the models will change and trend toward a more northerly path of the storm.
I suppose folks some folks will rationalize this, but they sure were all gangbusters for the NAM when it favored more snow for more areas and no apparent southeast trend 😉
Point is everybody was riding the NAM express and now might be trying to get out at the next exit.
Agreed there is a chance for a northeast trend, since anything is possible.
I think folks are going to be surprised when the snow distribution is more widespread than what the NAM has been showing, especially points north. I anticipate tomorrow we will start seeing some serious warnings, and watch areas will be expanded. The cold air moving in will obviously play the biggest role in determining that. Should be fun to watch this unfold on Sunday.
Fair perspective 🙂
Caught a glimpse of the new GFS run. Heaviest precipitation is mirroring the last NAM run. Areas of southern KY along and south of the parkways look good for decent precip (.75-1.0). The GFS does spread the wealth a little better, however. Looks like some light accumulating snow near the southern portions of Louisville.
Great the gfs was at least some what great for cen. ky. Now it is allied with the Euro& nam. Say good-bye for a major snow event for the n.ky area.
Need to clarify, the .75-1.0 refers to QPF. Snowfall would be equivalent to 7-10″ I believe.
For every inch of liquid it is 6.25 inches of snow 🙂
Jim C said it all is changing now.
Chris obviously thinks there could be a shift south, and the tv mets discussed it as well. We needed a nw shift, and got exactly the opposite. Kentucky weather at its best. Losing hope….
Looks like all models are caving in to the EURO..Thought it was a fluke but the ensembles members agree..This Baby is heading Southeast..Wouldn’t suprise me as much as a shift that occured today that tomorrow only one getting any snow will be extreme S/E ky..Go Figure..
Hey,I have a great idea! Lets talk about next weekends snow chance. Since this winters theme has been wait until next week.
The way this winter has gone, we might be talking about severe t-storm/tornado watches next weekend instead!
followed by the snow chance!lol
Yea, why not both 😉
Perhaps unusual, but it happens. However, in this case the snow may have just added insult to injury:
http://blog.chicagoweathercenter.com/2007/04/snow-after-oak-lawn-tornado.html
Dang, hadn’t seen Tom Skilling in years, he’s lost some hair. But then again, we will see what my head looks like in a couple of decades.
His newest tweet states, “New GFS model holds serve and looks a lot like my first call map from earlier.” That was 25 minutes ago.
I admit that from now on I will never become excited about a computer model more than 24 hours away. Major let down it seems as now snow totals are drastically cut. Afraid our chance for this year was just busted 🙁
Does anyone have snowfall graphic for 00Z GFS. My thought was it was similar to 18Z run but enhanced a little to the west with totals.
HOPE! 00z CMC actually goes further north. The meteorology in my view argues for the CMC/GFS solution.
mitch u coulda just made my night lol. Love your blog btw
I am desperate how much further north does the cmc take it.
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/model_forecast/global_e.html
it tracks the upper low along the TN/KY line and brings precip all the way to the Ohio river.
Man,if that is true,that is quite a cutoff of moisture to the north.
meteorology i can say the low slowed down and allowed the High pressure up north to move in an suppressed the system more south..That along with a 50/50 low trying to emerge just pretty well kill us..But hey what do i know..
Seems like we are playing Frogger with the models. If they look good, stay on the log and if not, jump to the next one 😉
The NAM was the preferred log to rest on, but now that it appears to be sinking, BOING! to the next log.
Will be interesting to see if CB holds fast, or downgrades.
If tonight’s run of the Euro hold’s serve and trends more south as someone once said “turn out the light’s the party’s over”
Was it bad?
The euro comes out around 2am
Oh sorry. Guess I’m getting a little trigger happy LOL
Does any expert think this will be one of those deals where the Southern storms rob us of the moisture? Hope not….sick of junk like that LOL
Not an expert, but the SPC does have a slight risk of severe wx Saturday almost as far north as Atlanta, with a 30% probability of general severe wx along much of the Gulf Coast to as far north as about Columbus GA. Just the messenger, here!
Not to mention, lots of Flood Watches/Flash Flood Watches along the coast north to points like Shreveport, Tuscaloosa. Lots of heavy rain with the severe wx.
Good Question Snow Lover had that thought as well. I sure hope not with everything else this storm is having to overcome.
Chris should (and will) send out a Winter Storm ALERT with the next post. But should try to be as specific as possible for who all it applies to.
Fickle, fickle, fickle……Models are not concrete….that’s why we call it forecasting. By the way, please….please don’t use “sweet spot” anymore….right up there with “sweet”, “under the bus”, “garden variety shower”. 😉