Good Thursday everyone. Here we are a few days from the weekend and what will be a big winter storm across the eastern half of the country and it is difficult to get a good handle on the evolution and primary storm track. Until we get all the players actually on the playing field… we don’t know exactly what play mother nature will be calling.
By that I mean the energy that will cause the storm is currently in a part of the world where the models have to guess at its strength. Once this energy moves into the western part of the country… the models should converge on a similar solution. That probably won’t happen until Friday.
In the meantime… we had quite the model shuffle while you were sleeping. The GFS looks like the old European Model as the new European Model looks more like the old GFS. Confused? Well… you are not alone as the model flips have been pretty wild. The issue is there will be a broad area of low pressure initially on Saturday. This will stretch from Arkansas northward toward Chicago. The difference in model solutions boils down to some of the models trying to consolidate this low into a stronger system across the Ohio Valley while others weaken it out allowing for a stronger storm to form across the mid atlantic states.
The European has given up on the lakes low and now shows the latter scenario…
The Canadian model is broken down into shorter time increments so you can better see what it does with the low…
That takes the low right over Kentucky and weakens it out over West Virginia as a stronger low takes over along the east slopes of the Appalachian mountains and rides northward with a tremendous backlash of snows in our region. Keep in mind… both the European and Canadian models had been taking a fairly strong low into the great lakes.
The GFS Ensembles basically show a combination of the Canadian and European Models as we have a low pressure crossing the region and weakening out. This gives way to a powerful low developing across the mid atlantic states that rides northward…
The UKMET has something similar with a weakening low giving way to a powerful storm in the mid atlantic…
After looking at all of the above models… the one thing that does stand out is they bring a low pressure across Kentucky and weaken it out allowing for a big storm to crank somewhere in the mid atlantic states. The timing and exact tracks of both storms still have to be ironed out as that will, obviously, have a big impact on the impact the storm has on us.
Here is what I continue to feel confident about…
– Rain will break out across the region Saturday. There is a chance this rain starts out as a period of frozen precip early Saturday.
– The rain will change to snow from west to east quickly late Saturday night into Sunday morning.
– There should be a very good period of snow Sunday into Monday morning with accumulations LIKELY.
– Bitterly cold air moving in Sunday into Sunday night will increase the liquid to snow ratios. A normal 10 to 1 ratio can be as high as 40 to 1 or higher given the depth of cold air. That can really crank up snow totals… especially in the east and southeast where upslope snows will continue through Tuesday.
– Thermometers will crash Sunday as arctic air moves in. This could lead to a quick ice up from the earlier rains that have now changed to snow.
– Highs Monday and Tuesday should stay in the teens with lows in the single digits.
– Winds will crank up Sunday and Monday and blow around whatever snow falls. These gusty winds will create wind chill temps well below zero.
This will be another day of multiple posts as we track the latest model twists and turns. I will also get much more specific with my thoughts and break the weekend down in greater detail. For now… your friendly weather dude needs to catch up on some zzz’s. ![]()
Have a great Thursday and take care.
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Didn’t pull the trigger or go into storm mode. I guess we have to play the waiting game and see what happens today. Thanks for the update, now catch up on some sleep.
Oh Well, it is still a few days out. There is still hope. But puting the safety on the winter storm mode gun and not firing it really worries me. hopefully we will see a change. As of now, i am not banking on a big snow…..
Whew!
I don’t know how much more I can take. And to think we try do do seasonal forecasts when we really don’t know what’s going to happen three days from now.
The model tango is not unusual; every year we go through this; everyone please pull on there “big-girl panties” as it may get a little bumpy the next couple of days
Guess we will just have to settle for more cow bell!!!!
This is the best weather blog anywhere. Thanks so much for all your hard work. Send us some snow over here in western Kentucky:)
turn out the liggggghhtttss the parties over!!!
that my best DANDY DON inpersanation.
today word is BUMFUZZLED, meaning I am BUMFUZZLED trying to figure out this storm.
today song is,
AMARILLO BY MORNING by the GREAT GEORGE STRAIT.
ill be waiting for 8 when they pull that gate.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! nothing like old school countray music..
u all have a great day.
A balmy 11 degrees this morning at the Knox Mesonet site
Everybody wants to know what’s going to happen. But honestly I think Chris is playing it very wise to wait. The models obviously still don’t have a clue and Chris is doing a good job holding off on an actual call for accumulation right now. Like he said, we’ve got to get the players on the field and get some upper air samples from them into the models first, then hopefully things will straighten out some.
When does this normally happen ? Two maybe 3 days out ? Just wondering ! Thank You for all you post on here. I really enjoy the reading
Still not seeing what all the drama is about. CB always stated mainly rain for Saturday, but kind of stoked the flames with the trigger-pulling analogies. Those posts were meant to be funny and were, but some folks seem to have taken it to heart we had a good shot for a big snow.
Tis is no longer an issue of considering big snow, but whether we will even see the heavier wraparounds snow.
Still sticking to norht KY and east KY getting the better totals, but the average trend of the system is now a net zero.
CB is smart being conservative, but this is not a very good sign for a big event. Cold rain, a few inches (perhaps)of snow over a few day and cold temps again.
Seems a repeat of last weekend, but actually less snow and more rain.
Thank you for being so clear. I will still hoping for the big snow.
Have a great day everyone
I agree Joy, I love hearing the different takes on the forecast on here so thanks a bunch guys….although you don’t always agree you give us educated possibilities and I really appreciate it. My question is will we see snow on the ground out of this next weather maker. Do all paths lead to snow or are we in jeapardy of not seeing any of the white stuff we love so well at all?
the gfs and the nam have both butchered the weekend storm..$*%&%$ ..???? GO FIGURE!!!
It takes a day or two for a storm to traverse the country. So if it’s going to affect us on Saturday, it’ll have to be moving onto the mainland today. I’d say that by tonight, Chris will be able to make a call on what’s going to happen. That’ll be 48 hours before the change to snow, so that’s a fair amount of time.
It seems like the models are fine-tuning the rain amounts now. It all looked so hopeful. I had even dusted off the sleds. Now I just need an umbrella.
Doesnt the 12z NAM come out in just a few minutes?
Looks like the Canadian is trying to sniff another system out for the middle of next week. Looks as if it misses us to the east as of now, but with a westward trend it might be something to look at.
Yes the NAM is coming out, and looks a lot better than before. It has a snow storm in Tennessee and more snow for us overall. Once again, one run, but reason to hope.
Agreed…..!!!! Western Ky needs some snow baby!!!! Love this blog…..it defintely rocks!
You are too kind with “clear” 😉 I type too fast and do not correct my mistakes.
On a positive note, it would not get as cold next week without a decent snow pack. Temps may be about what they were this week as a result, rather than crazy cold. Then again, wind and current temps WOULD be crazy cold, regardless.
Seems the trend so far:
1. Winter storm potential
2. Pull the trigger?
3. Pull the trigger part two
4. Models are nuts- put the gun back in the holster
Still seems a similar event as the last one, but maybe more moisture and more wide covered rain.
Good news is the system still has two days to converge to a more snowy solution 🙂
12Z NAM shows the same thing.. with the low going west to east across the northern tier of the nation. It’s almost funny… yesterday it was going through the southern plains and into TN. Today, total opposite. LOL. It’s a dart throw right now.
You guys are killing me all in disarray the models are out to lunch the GFS is garbage right now and so in the NAM give it time they both will come around the Euro looks good it has come around. Gotta understand let this storm eject past the Rockies the models will pick it up eventually, by Friday evening things will get more in line. This storm is incredibly complicated the models are just having a incredible time trying to make heads or tails.
Well even if west ky could get an inch it would be better than anything we have had over here. We’ve had nil thus far…….We’ll take what we can get!
Well that is great news!!! Maybe the models were just crazy last night and we will start seeing the trend back to the south. : )I guess we will see at 1:30 when the 12z ECMWF comes out. I think that is teh next one. Correct me if I am wrong.
The new NAM shows what I’m talking about for Sunday. It has some wicked snows breaking out that would lay down good accumulations.
This blog would not have the same heart or be fun, any other way. It would simply be a geeks site for am-mets 😉
How do we know what Chris this is?
What is the password? 😉
Wish we knew if this were the “real” Chris or not…..
I hope that pans out! A good 6″ snow would make me happy (more would be even better)!
good point…
THANK YOU!!! This blog is the best for weather information. The collective knowledge and experience is sometimes overwhelming for a weather nut like myself that has no idea how to read those maps. I look forward to the “fun” posts. I love the way everyone gets hyped up on a potential “old school” snow storm. This is what makes this blog THE BEST…I appreciated you, Rolo, WXman, Mark, AndyRose…and anyone else who can add to this fablous mix of weather geeks to keep me informed and make me laugh.
Is anyone else worried that all the cold & “action” of December will play out in the first half, then the 2nd half (more importantly…the 25th) will be nice and warm…with little to no chance of a white christmas?
Just makes me nervous when the first two week of the month are cold & snowy…don’t want the pattern to change at the wrong time!!
Holy cow 12z NAM… one heck of a transition from cold rain to heavy snow.
New NAM shows the low going through Wisconsin, but has a heavy thumping snow in Central Tennessee. This is giving me a headache even looking at what it’s trying to do.
yep, 12z NAM hammering ky, and Tn. with a heavy thumpin snowstorm!!!!
We are sitting here comtemplating on this upcoming weather event. And we’re thinkin probably three to six inches for London, KY. What do yuns think?
P.S. we are looking forward to building our first snowman as a family this year! Of course we would much rather get enough snow to make an igloo. Our newborn just got a brand new snow suit for this weekend. 🙂
“OHHHH THE WEATHER OUTSIDE IS FRIGHTFUL BUT THE FIRE IS SO DELIGHTFUL. AND SINCE THERE’S NO PLACE TO GO….****LET IT SNOW, LET IT SNOW, LET IT SNOW****”
Chris , are we talking statewide, eastern Ky, but most importantly central Ky?
Morning, weather friends! Glad to say that I am back among the working today, after being socked in with a terrible ear and throat infection…looks like action of some sort for sure over the weekend.
Chris, you had better get all the rest you can, as I have a feeling that you are going to be one busy weather dude from about Friday on through the weekend!
The way I see it, looking at the maps, and agreeing with waht BubbaG posted, Chris has always said it would begin as a cold rain…. Now, knowing our luck here in southern KY, that might be ALL we see, but central, north central, and eastern KY could really get in on the snow love with this one….depends on the track, of course. Keeping my fingers crossed that we will get in on it too, but hoping to finish shopping before it hits! Have a GREAT day, everyone! Stay tuned….
What “Chris” are you???
What is the password?!? 😉
NWS in JKL doesnt seem as enthusiastic as we on the blog do, now do they??
some of their discussion:
THE WAY THE MODELS ARE TRENDING…IT LOOKS LIKE THE BULK OF THE
PRECIPITATION THAT FALLS WILL FALL AS LIQUID. THE SNOW WILL FALL IN
THE COLD AIR BEHIND THE FRONT AND FROM THE WRAP AROUND MOISTURE AND
TROFS THAT WILL BE MOVING DOWN THE BACK SIDE OF THE UPPER LOW. SINCE
THE MAJORITY OF THE SNOW WILL COME IN THE COLDER AND DRIER AIR…IT
SHOULD NOT ACCUMULATE TOO QUICKLY…HOWEVER IT WILL HANG AROUND FOR
QUITE A WHILE. PIKE COUNTY COULD POTENTIALLY SEE UP TO 7 INCHES OF
SNOW BY THE TIME THE SNOW STOPS FALLING ON TUESDAY. SINCE IT WILL FALL
OVER A 3 DAY PERIOD…IT SHOULD NOT BE TOO HARD FOR THE SNOW PLOWS TO
KEEP ON TOP OF
All this waffling is making me hungry lol…..but, seriously is there still a chance of getting a snow event…..at all?? Hoping the new run of the models are correct but what are the chances of that?
Um, that’s Wisconsin. Not Tennessee. 😉
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/12/images/nam_pcp_060m.gif
Well I read this same discussion early this morning. But they are the NWS so they cant get excited and jump on a run right away. They have got to remain cautious, if a few runs turn the trend they will get on it.
Yeah, with the parent low that far north, I don’t see how on earth TN would get a big snow from it. I think this NAM run is totally out to sea. In fact, if the low takes that track, I doubt KY would even see big snow from it.
In addition to that, the 12Z NAM surface chart shows a temperature of 4 to 6 degrees Celcius at the time of the heavy precip. moving through. In other words, well above freezing at ground level.
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/12/images/nam_pcp_072m.gif
This is the image we are referring to. I know geography. Yes the Low goes north but the run showed heavy moisture in TN. Yes the runs are delayed concerning temps, but there is no doubt that the NAM is more optimistic this run than last. This is what people are talking about.
The only thing I can think of is that the NAM is trying to form a double barrel low like the 00z Euro did. Otherwise, I don’t see how the center of low pressure can be in Michigan with all of the moisture being in KY and TN. Makes no sense to me.
folks look at surface temps with the 12z nam there is barely enough cold air with the main precipitation shield for a very quick change to snow. the advection of cold in the upper levels is much faster than surface cold. the nam is not showing a snowstorm eventhough 850 temps are cold enough.
We understand that, but what we are optimistic about is an abundance of moisture. Yes if that NAM verified TN, would be mainly rain during the heavy precipitation. But the run may be indicating something similar to the EURO scenario. Thats all we are saying. It is at least more optimistic than the previous run.
Yeah it makes no sense, and this NAM run is going in the trash can.
Yup, as I noted earlier, it’s showing 4-6°C (as warm as 42°F) at the surface. Little to no accumulation if you forecast solely based upon today’s models so far.
I am in Pike County!!!!!!!!!!!!
Until the storm gets on land and some live data is collected, these models will waffle. (however,not long now)
The 12Z GFS also has more juice to the south. Be interesting to watch if they are indeed detecting something.
Brian Goode over at WAVE 3 in Louisville, and a fellow WKU grad posted this a few minutes ago on his blog: “I do agree with Kevin that the low will track closer to Louisville that was most of the models are showing.
In fact, I really like the look of the GFS ensembles today. I think they have the best handle on the track. The operational GFS (the maps we usually show on here) is the one that cannot be trusted right now.”
I have to say I agree with him on his comments on the track and trusting the models. Let’s wait till this thing gets over US soil before we get too antsy or wound up.
i agree when it hits land then we will know exactly where its headed. when do u think its coming on land tom? im new at blogging 🙂
Tonight
It should start getting live data in 12 hours or so.
JUST watch all 3 major network MET’s in Louisville give their Sunday forcast and every single one of them said they don’t think it’s going to be much of a snowmaker around here and don’t expect more than 1″-2″ of snow totals! WOW, what a drastic change from last night. It’s pretty amazing all 3 (ABC,CBS,NBC) jumped on the NAM and EURO bandwagon this morning, even though the storm is still in the pacific ocean. To me, that’s why local MET’s get such a bad wrap. They sit there and say things that are as up and down as the roller coaster ride on these models we all read. I am sooo glad Chris Bailey is taking the right approach and waiting until tonight or tomorrow to get a good grasp on how this will all play out! I personally hope it snow a FOOT just to show the local MET’s how ridiculous it is to disgard this storm as anything more than a few light snow showers. (they never even mentioned the wind involved with this system)!!!
Yup, we need to get it into the modeling, because today’s runs so far would leave the Lexington area with 1-2″ of snow MAXIMUM, and that’s being generous. Will be interesting to see what the 00Z runs do tonight (the 18Z runs are garbage)…
With a trend like that a big chunk of KY would see some action, since systems like this tend to bend southward over KY and then shoot up, due north-east.
Where is Paul Kocin when you need him?
its so funny to watch, as many was talking biggest storm of the year and biggest in years a few days ago and now its basically a regular overblown clipper.lol
with 6-8 inches being the top for areas up noreth and north east.
what this system and models have shown is do not get excited about the intensity of a storm until,,,, well until it arrives this winter.
1-3 inches tops on backside upslope for ky and that be in the usual upslope areas.
it flood before we ghet any snow that amounts to anything.
well lets start looking towards 20th of month range for a bigen.lol NOT.
why did weather channel get rid of him WXMAN? I luv watching him.
they keep DR GREG FORBES but get rid of the WINTER EXPERT.
and steve lions was great with hurricane action too.
LOL…
Thats my story…Thats my story,and I’m stickin to it !!!!!!!!!…lol..
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